(Author’s note – if totally unfamiliar with this topic the reader may need to read my first posts “National Security Alert: Foreign Telescamvangelists, Cults, Sects” and “Birth Of The Iron Age Yahwehism Blood Magic Death Cult” for more background information, visuals and definitions that help explain the facts, ideas, circumstances and even geopolitical situations that led to the era of these stories, i.e. – to the actual invention of the Abrahamic/biblical fables tribal god in the Levant and ancient Canaan during the Late Bronze/Iron Age as a direct result of many theological and blood magic sorcery mutations, cultural and religious syncretization and diffusion, primitive ancient superstitions, cosmology and abstract concepts borrowings, influences and adaptions from other surrounding older and neighbouring religions such as from the ancient Mesopotamians, Sumerians, Babylonians, Akkadians, Egyptians, Phoenicians, Canaanites, Zoroastrianism until lastly from Greco-Roman influences, religious beliefs and philosophies etc).
Well, it’s that season again, that oh so very important season for televangelists and telescamvangelists especially, that very popular holy fundraising season for their temples coffers to bring in as many faith seed shekels as they can, and so of course you’ll come across all of them playing up on the “Nativity Stories” as much as possible (yes plural, it’s not just 1 story as many think), including of course the related choirs and singing about the adventures (believe it or not sometimes even bringing camels in church for the full theatrical effect as proof about something, that camels exist I guess?), the many books and DVDs being sold, I mean various “special offers” being “offered” not sold, lol (oh so many books and DVDs that’s for sure, the “Power of Pretend” can give forth an abundance of mountains of books and DVDs and even miraculously multiply them a hundredfold I verily tell you, Glo-Ry!), probably reenactment plays and tree ornaments too, and of course the shellfish and pork tenderloin/bacon abominations. Which is why I decided to post this here and tell the real story of what’s going on so to speak.
(Don’t get me wrong though, just because I won’t be at any of those events and being all singing believing or waving my hands in the air for whatever reason etc, or going around buying all the overpriced pointless crap I can get my hands on either, doesn’t mean I’ll be throwing out the whole entire holiday season, that would be ridiculous and dumb (even though I personally have never even been a fan of the holiday since I was a kid, I always hated sitting as a 4 or 5 year old on another fake Santa Clause lap in the mall are some of my earliest memories, I already knew he was fake and I never wore the stupid Santa Clause ring they gave out and never liked listening to any sort of carolling, I liked the tree decorating, the foods, some presents, making snowmen, tobogganing and blinking lights (and getting to taste some sample sips of wine, beer and hooch which was cool and fun), but that was mostly it, even at that time I was already a bigger Hallowe’en fan which was basically the whole month of October and way better cartoons too, oh and New Year’s Eve was ok too of course). After all, I’m Croatian background with a history going back to the ancient Hyperboreans so naturally I’ll definitely be having traditional Croatian holiday foods including some abominational shrimp, crab or shellfish themed recipes, pork tenderloin and bacon (they don’t call it the candy of meats for nothing, plus if I have the pork tenderloin with a cheese sauce it will be doubly an abomination and heretical), stuffed peppers, cabbage rolls and of course beer and/or wine and/or traditional hooch derived adult beverages, because after all it’s all about the Hibernal Solstice/Midwinter festivities customs which goes far back in history, it’s all about celebrating and relaxing during the cold short days and dark Winter Solstice time and the coming New Year season just like in the old days thousands of years ago to even during the Last Glacial Maximum. (you could even say that the snowmen I make today are offspring of the snowmen that they made thousands of years ago). It’s even the original reason for the season everyone knows that, so of course I’m not going to not respect that and my ancestors and their snowmen, that would be disrespectful, offensive and absurd to even imagine, heck it would even make me a loathsome nefarious treacherous traitor spitting on my and their existence).
I’m not going to get into the topics of how and why December 25th was eventually centuries later chosen as the nativity date (Hint; it was already a popular gift-giving, candles lighting, trees and decorations, drinking, snacking and singing etc holiday time celebrated by various pagan religions centered around the Hibernal Solstice, aka Winter Solstice/Midwinter, some of them even already specifically on December 25th), or about the gospels novels scribe’s using cherry picked excerpts of quotes from OT Isaiah, Hosea and other books as a “prediction” as claimed because they’re so obviously taken completely out of context and have absolutely less than nothing to do with anything 800 years and centuries in the future, and the predicted events and results did not happen anyway, and the one’s claimed to be fulfilled were done in the writer’s own day, it’s not difficult to understand, it’s so obvious that all one has to do is just read the passages “in context” and it’s immediately understood that the gospels writers are inventing abstract meanings from a selective tiny partial snippet that aren’t there or even implied to be there…today we call that fraudulent), or about how most of the holiday’s traditions are derived from earlier European pagan religion’s customs and rituals, those are already established facts and known about. I briefly discussed this particular topic among other NT and OT biblical contradictions and wrong information topics at my very first post “National Security Alert: Foreign Telescamvangelists, Cults, Sects“.
And let’s not forget, and it’s something to keep in mind during this very brief examination of this particular nativity story topic…“miraculous virgin births” stories and claims were already very common literary themes and even popular pagan religions tropes for already thousands of years before anonymous so-called Matthew and Luke started writing, fabricating and contradicting, popular elsewhere first such as the Buddha as one very well-known example, and especially popular already in the area ala Hercules, Perseus, Ion, Asclepius, Dionysus, Helen, Asherah, Sennacherib, Zoroaster, Alexander the Great, the Ptolemies, Caesar Augustus, Plato, Romulus, Remus and many others, and they coincidentally often include conceptions by miraculous circumstances and features such as intervention by a deity, supernatural elements, astronomical signs, escaping, hardships etc (see miraculous births). But like I said, let’s see what’s really going on and not going on in these 2 particular presented nativity stories that many people think is just 1 story but isn’t, that many people think they know and only think is real events and telling the same thing but is instead telling different and contradictory stories, as well as the stuff in the stories always left out or not talked about or even questioned by most (sort of like how we are supposed to believe that the entire population of humanoids on the entire planet derive from just 3 men, yep nothing questionable there so it must have happened just as it’s written)…
…Firstly, so many events, characters and things mentioned by one of these gospels novels is completely missing in the other (of the 4 anonymous gospel novels only 2 of them include a nativity story, the ones today that are so-called “Matthew” and “Luke”, however we don’t really know and nobody has ever known who wrote any of them, all 4 of the writers don’t tell who they are, where they are, exactly when they are writing or even what their sources are). The types of events described in one gospel are impossible to reasonably reconcile with the other. There is a human tendency by many people, especially televangelists and scamvangelist preachers, to respond to many of the contradictories and difficulties by just make-believing that no difficulty exists. The quickest, and laziest, way to overcome the problems is to just pretend that there is no problem. That’s the mighty magics and “power of pretend” and will get the faith shekels seeds into the tax-free temples coffers and expense accounts easier. The “Power of Pretend” is actually quite powerful and amazing when you think about it, anybody can pretend just about anything in their mind, and not even need any proof of anything either (“Pretend Truth” and “Pretend News” was around a lot longer before “Fake News”, it’s basically the same thing). Even little kids know how to play pretend and can even have conversations with invisible made up people and beings better than most adults.
Much like most of the previous magical OT characters and hocus pocus events and historical real world inaccuracies, events described by both the “Matthew” and “Luke” novels writers likewise cannot be reconciled with history outside the New Testament. Both authors disagree and list events that, had they actually happened, could not have escaped public record, and this is particularly evident in their Jesus character dealings which begin from the start with competing contradictory nativity stories.
Before even getting into the fundamental meat of the matter and contradictions of the story, the presented genealogies of the Jesus character are completely different. In the Matthew gospel novel, the scribe writes that Jacob is the father of Joseph, but in Luke he writes that Heli is the father of Joseph. There are also problems in the used 1 Chronicles “lifted” quote by “Matthew” which would imply that his Jesus is a descendent of David through Solomon (oh you know, the king Solomon who had 700 wives and 300 concubines for holy on the side fun supposedly, I think that’s why Pat Robertson named his show “The 700 Club” probably), but the “Luke” writer in his genealogy actually uses his brother Nathan instead, that’s another person and so is a completely different lineage and is just another problem to add to the long list. Also, the lists from David to Joseph are completely different, the absurd genealogies even has the Luke novel laughably go back to Adam (Adam? yep Adam, “Matthew’s” genealogy to Abraham is not good or impressive enough it seems to wow the reader, so “Luke” instead goes all the way back to talking snakes in a garden and duped clueless masters of the garden universe times, so we’re off to a really great accurate historical account start to the story. Besides, if the Joseph character is presented as “NOT” being Jesus’ actual real physical father, then both genealogies are really just futile attempts to link “their Jesus” to anybody on earth anywhere and so it’s pointless anyway, (talk about overcompensating), seriously, the fake genealogies writing authors are shooting themselves in the foot, if Hercules…I mean Perseus…I mean the Jesus character is supposed to be descended from the lineage (from the “seed”) of a David, then how exactly is this possible if Joseph or anybody else on earth are “NOT” his real father giving any “seed”? He’s descended from nobody on earth it says so right in the narrative story and it’s plain to read, there is absolutely no “seed” involved in the birth, so the fake Joseph genealogies are pointless fabrications, absurd and just theological smoke and mirrors rubbish! The fake cherry picked predictions attempts are only “theological magic numbers” genealogies and they fail big time).
Actually both genealogies are mainly just directly “lifted” (aka plagiarized) from the OT anyway, a straight copy and paste, then just tweaked-edited as each writer wanted symbolic magical numbers of generations in their equations, using of course gematria as the rules (3 sets of 14 in Matthew and both using factors of 7 which is the main important thing for accuracy, everyone knows that). Matthew has twenty-seven generations from David to Joseph, whereas Luke has forty-two, with almost no overlap between the names on the two lists. This is because in reality, the gospels-novels writers had no great desire to fulfill any historical accuracy; just like the OT scribes-authors before them they had an agenda and only symbological requirements and magic numbers calculations for their “theological truth claims” (aka “Pretend Truth”), to hell with reality and real facts more or less (also interesting is that the anonymous Matthew gospel novel writer decided to omit and leave out a number of named generations and kings from his “lifted” OT text specifically so he could claim 3 sets of 14 generations equaling 42, however even still his last set is actually only 13 generations so just yet another problem on top of the contradictory “Luke” genealogy problems). Humans genetics, real world history, anthropology, palaeontology etc are not factors in the scam faked genealogies either…obviously. The “Luke” writer also failed to remind in his amazing super-duper wowee genealogy that the entire population of humanoids on the entire planet as told according to his believed version of history-reality, derive from just 3 men and not just only his failed magic man superhero, which would technically mean Jesus was likewise a product of incest (these gosh darn awesome genealogists don’t have much foresight, hindsight or even common sense about these things).
Strangely also, as is usually the case with all the gospels novels writers though, so actually not strange, they go full steam ahead from the very start just telling their stories, like reading an owner’s manual to a crockpot or Ikea furniture assembly directions, and in this case their nativity story. i.e. – They don’t identify or say who they are at any time or where specifically they are writing, (and not even writing in a language connected to the area where the “plots” and “adventures” take place), or what and who their sources are (since they weren’t even alive or in the area at the time, who the hell are you anyway mr. scribe? all hiding anonymously behind pages and ink and being all contradictory and stuff), they don’t state why the reader should believe them and their sources or why they are good and trustworthy sources, the scribe author doesn’t have any personal thoughts or opinions about anything he writes and claims or why they believe their sources are true (e.g. – …”Hi I’m Todd, I was skeptical at first but I was told by Billy who knew Ivan who heard it from Monique and Inga who worked at the inn and who’s cousins Hugo, Karl and Sven were shepherds that night so I know it happened exactly like this, and I did a bunch of painstakingly detailed historiography research and fact-checking which further factually proved it without a doubt, my cousin Pierre even knows a guy who has a piece of straw from the manger etc), nope none of that, which are very general basic methods that actual historians and biographers used at the time, and today especially. Instead it’s just anonymously rushing right out of the starting blocks going full throttle with their magical story narrative, hocus pocus and even reading minds knowing what people are thinking in the stories and knowing long and private secret speeches said by people and floating outer space beings, as if there’s absolutely nothing peculiar or fantastic taking place or strange unreal things happening to question or doubt or be surprised at. These are just some of the big flashing neon warning signs and obvious markers that we are clearly dealing with a fiction story…more precisely an invented fable written after the destruction of the Jerusalem Temple in the late 1st century to fabricate-legitimize an apocalyptic religious sect’s origins and existence and main superhero character introduction, and importantly their connection to OT quoted text excerpts (even though they’re cherry picked out of context and not connected in any way whatsoever anyway, as you’ll see) . Btw, the original 1st anonymous “Mark” gospel novel writer starts off his superhero Jesus character introduction by only having a pigeon landing on him and then given a bath by the camel furs wearing John the locust eater, when he’s about 30, there’s no nonsensical famous magical adventures and floating singing aliens or a lost ufo anywhere.
The 2 nativity stories contain many internal contradictions, they conflict with each other, and external contradictions when they conflict with known facts of history. The anonymous scribes-authors of so-called Matthew and Luke without a doubt never imagined that their two books would ever be placed next to each other in a single collection of books (along with the anonymously written so-called Mark and John versions novels). Each author was writing only for their own particular agendas and audiences (“Luke” even plainly states at the beginning of his gospel novel that he’s writing just only a personal letter to some guy named “Theophilus”, who’s probably just a fellow sectarian cult member…so obviously he must be writing to the entire world and planet then I guess), and each of them believed they were writing the one and only true “THE” gospel novel about their Jesus character. We know this because of the mutating, added, reversed endings, omitted and changed information from the original anonymous Mark author, as well as their internal conflicts and correcting of the other previous gospel novel theologies which are basically their arguments with each other, that’s right, plain to read in the texts they are arguing with each other, they are not a linear succession of supplementing information, they are actually instead a mutating line of anonymous authors somewhere trying to overthrow and depose the other previous written version, each one is attempting to become “the” one and “the” only official story by adding, omitting, changing information and theologies (the included “John” novel writer is the last one written and a thing of its own way out there in left field, with a new Pentecostal Terminator-Jesus already preexistent immortal who’s totally self-assured about everything and claiming to be a deity, with a new on the scene zombie Lazarus character, having at least a 3 year mission adventure instead of 1 year like the rest and a bunch of other new and changed stuff, characters and ideas not found in the other 3 gospel-novels). As for this particular topic some further points to take into consideration…
…The anonymous author of Matthew claims that Jesus was born during the reign of King Herod. Luke claims Jesus was born while Cyrenius (aka Quirinius) was governor of Syria. However, Herod died 10 years before Cyrenius became governor. Either Matthew or Luke is wrong on this issue, or they are both wrong. Only one thing is certain: the Bible contains an error and contradictory information regarding the year when their Jesus was born. This is usually a big red flag showing that what we are dealing with is fiction, and it’s just one of numerous red flags to appear even just during these 2 nativity stories alone.
The “Massacre of the Innocents” is not recorded in history anywhere.
The anonymous author of Matthew claims that Herod killed all boys near Bethlehem who were 2 years old or under. No other gospel makes this claim. More importantly there is absolutely no evidence outside the Bible of any atrocity like this ever taking place. Historians recorded many things about Herod who was the Roman client king of Judea. We know he was born around 74 BCE, that he died in 4 BCE, and that he completed many building projects, including construction of the port at Caesarea Maritima and greatly expanded and renovated the 2nd Temple in Jerusalem with Roman aid (destroyed in 70 CE by the Romans). It is recorded in sources that he improved water sources, built water supplies and aqueducts, built roads, built Masada and Herodium and ensured peace and order (again with Roman help and military aid), he leased copper mines, killed his wife and two sons, and did many other things. The so-called “massacre of the innocents” however is missing entirely from any historical record, a very common theme one will realize regarding the OT and NT in general.
Also, the text in “Matthew” implies that it took the travelling magi about 2 years to make the trip or that the birth already took place about 2 years previously when the star first appeared, which both means about 2 years either way, because the text reads that “after” he was born is when the star first appeared. Later in the story Herod after realizing that the magi duped him and weren’t returning to report to him, only then he decides to order the massacres…”in accordance with the time he had learned from the Magi”…and from earlier text…”Then Herod called the Magi secretly and found out from them the exact time the star had appeared”, because why else order up to 2 year old boys to be killed if it was born just days ago, or even a few weeks ago, and because when they follow the “reappearing” star again it leads them to and stops and hovers right over the house, they arrive at “the house” and come across the “child” not an infant in a barn manger (And besides, why even arrive to Jerusalem and then even right to the very throne of Herod in the first place? if they were following the supposed star, which is even the absolute worst place they could have arrived at (why the heck would Herod who is a King of Judea and a Roman client king with armies and great power and authority…let a few travelling foreign unknown astrologer nobodies even approach his palace or property with royal guards security, or why would he even care to waste any time on what they have to say?, he had nothing more important to do than let foreign astrologer strangers tell their astrology tales?), and why not instead perhaps come across something or ask someone else before?, something like…oh I don’t know…maybe…perhaps…possibly…SHEPHERDS!, surely there must have been some shepherds (or other people) out and about doing stuff across the land that could have pointed them on the right track? or why not just another measly angels appearance to set them straight with proper directions?). Even just this farcical story excerpt sounds completely made up and is an incredibly badly planned out adventure by the star anyway.
The absurd and senseless census in Luke is not recorded in history anywhere.
There is a historical census recorded during the time of Cyrenius. However, that census and no other Roman census ever required anyone to return to their ancestral homes from where they lived 1,000 years ago. There are major difficulties in accepting Luke’s account: his gospel links the birth of Jesus to the reign of Herod the Great, but the census took place in 6 CE, nine years after Herod’s death in 4 BCE, and it was only local in Judea for tax purposes anyway, not an empire wide pointless mass movement of peoples over vast distances.
Chapter 2 of the Luke gospel novel correlates the date of the nativity to the census. – Luke 2:1-5:
“In those days a decree went out from Emperor Augustus that all the world should be registered. This was the first registration and was taken while Quirinius was governor of Syria. All went to their own towns to be registered. Joseph also went from the town of Nazareth in Galilee to Judea, to the city of David called Bethlehem, because he was descended from the house and family of David. He went to be registered with Mary, to whom he was engaged and who was expecting a child”.
Again, no such ridiculous census as described in Luke shown above ever took place, the excerpt regarding Emperor Augustus declaring that “the entire Roman world”, i.e. – the entire Roman Empire, required all the people living in the empire to travel back to their ancestor’s city, would have even been one of if not “the” most major pointless absurd time and money wasting and serving absolutely no purpose snafus of any ruler in the history of the planet…ever (think about it, everybody stopping working in the cities and towns and villages in the entire empire, everyone working in the fields, farming, fishing, making textiles, working on roads and buildings, manufacturing…everything, suddenly stopping and “Well, it’s time to start packing now we got a long census trip to get ready for”, lol that’s so pointless and totally bonkers!). On top of that, the Romans did not directly tax client kingdoms such as under king Herod, and no Roman census ever required millions of people to travel from their own homes to those of distant ancestors from 1,000 years previously. Even in his own history, Augustus himself fails to mention this incredible “miraculous” census achievement but does mention his many other achievements and that’s simply not even remotely credible.
The anonymous Matthew gospel novel writer of course knows nothing about it and mentions no amazing miraculous pointless census, this would be because according to the anonymous Matthew writer they were instead already living in their hometown Bethlehem, so of course there was no need for a fictional census travel adventure from a hometown Nazareth as the so-called Luke writer describes. That’s right! as in already living in Bethlehem from the start! What’s more, we can logically deduct from known sources that the actual real local Cyrenius census was only in Judea and would have been given about 9 years after the supposed birth of a Jesus anyway (unless he was born twice through teleportation and time travel or that king Herod time travel teleported also and then teleported back to die), what we see is just invented theological propaganda at play. Let’s see what other contradictions and very strange problematic presented information there is…
Luke has no Trip to Egypt (and living for years in Egypt), Matthew has no trip to Jerusalem.
This is a big one that gets brushed aside usually by telescamvangelists and fabulist charlatans, so they just pretend the problem doesn’t exist, and that solves that, (you see? the “Power of Pretend” is awesome because you can pretend things do or even pretend things don’t exist whenever you want then, it’s simply awesome! Glo-Ry!…I’m waving my hands in the air looking at the ceiling…not really hehehe). In Matthew, Jesus is born in his home town of Bethlehem, they then flee immediately to Egypt after a warning dream to Joseph, and after their return from Egypt “a few years later” (yes “years later”, probably at least 2 years later), they then travel directly to Nazareth to avoid the son of Herod. And remember, in Luke they’re originally from Nazareth.
In Luke, Mary and Joseph start in their home town Nazareth, then travel to Bethlehem for a famous census (that neither “Matthew” or anyone else have never heard about), then they go to Jerusalem, and then return to their home town of Nazareth.
Many scamvangelists and apologists try to create a “super story” in which they combine the travel of the two nativity stories above into one journey, usually selective cherry picking excerpts or a phrase here and there, ad hoc rationalizations, mental gymnastics (a wave of the hand and presto magico) and imagining a real super gospel in their mind using the mentioned “Power of Pretend” methodology, but this is is impossible, and plainly fraudulent again. The Luke writer specifically mentions circumcision on the eighth day and the required purification time. This refers to Leviticus 12, which states when a boy is born the mother is unclean for 7 days, the foreskin is removed on the 8th day, and she must not touch holy objects for 33 days (if Jesus were a girl, Mary would be unclean for 14 days and could not touch holy objects for 66 days). Luke 39 notes that when this 33 day period was complete they returned to Galilee. A trip to Egypt is not mentioned at all by the Luke writer!…instead they went to the Jerusalem temple soon after the birth and then just back to Nazareth (Dang you Matthew novel writer and your Egypt travelling shenanigans!).
Annunciations, Lost UFOs, Magi, Angels, Shepherds & Shenanigans Oh My!
An annunciation is given to Joseph in “Matthew”, but in “Luke” this is given to Mary. Each identifies the child as the promised Messiah (whatever that means and to whom exactly and for what reasons, “Luke” states that he will be given the throne of David and reign over Jacob’s descendants forever, pfff yeah so… what does that mean to me? Is this supposed to mean something to me? Is it supposed to mean something to me today…to some person living in Japan?…or in the pre-discovery New World?…the indigenous peoples, Mayans, the Cherokee, in Siberia? people living in the Alps? along the Danube river?…in ancient Pannonia, Illyricum, Dalmatia, Germania, Baltics, Gaul, among the ancient Vistula Veneti, Heruli, Helvetii, the Bronze Age Corded Ware and Hallstatt culture populations, the Goths, Celts, Vandals, Liburnians, Etruscans, Sarmatians, in ancient India, China, Somalia, Sudan, around the Caspian sea, in New Zealand, Polynesia, Hawaii? etc and so on, this so-called Jacob character is nobody to me and actually means absolutely less than nothing to me and to about 99.99% of the planet because they all had their own kings…and besides…king David? oh the guy who sleeps with his soldier Uriah’s wife behind his back and gets her pregnant and then slyly planned his death on the battlefield to trickily hide the deed, and he also even already had a bunch of wives and fun on the side concubines, oh what a great guy that David Glo-Ry!), according to the Luke writer we have shepherds come to Bethlehem for the nativity scene, this after being told from some glorious singing floating angels in the night sky, but the Matthew writer knows nothing about this. Matthew instead has 3 “Magi” from the east following a guiding star (not kings as wrongly presented sometimes (what kings? of what kingdoms? kings don’t go around travelling on spur of the moment dangerous unknown travel adventures with other kings anyway, that sounds made up), but more correctly representing astrologer magicians and priests of Zoroastrianism or Mithraism, it’s the origins of the modern-day words “magic/magician”, which btw according to the OT laws was deserving a sentence of being stoned to death which is yet another contradiction you can add to the list), following a guiding star that zips around appearing and disappearing and then reappearing and hovering, Matthew knows nothing about any shepherds and angels.
However, the guiding star that the magi follow didn’t have Google maps or even a compass, so instead of directly leading them to Bethlehem it leads them to Jerusalem and even to the very palace and throne of the king Herod (in the process ultimately directly causing many thousands of deaths of innocent children…facepalm). In Matthew 2 the presence of the magi in the court of Herod the Great even disturbs the entire temple city of Jerusalem. The royal court, the assembled chief priests and teachers and even the whole city is upset by this the Matthew text reads! Knowing the gossip network we should expect the whole kingdom to be turned upside down by this news.
After the chit-chat session Herod soon points them on the right track to where Bethlehem is (thanks for nothing guiding star), and then not long afterwards proceeds to plan to kill all boys 2 years old and under in the area to make sure he rubs out any potential new king competition based on what the Magi told him (Later in the fable the ufo star stops and floats directly over the place, but if the “guiding star” would have just taken them to Bethlehem in the first place instead of to Herod’s Jerusalem, then all the “Massacre of the Innocents” would never have even happened, or at least given an angel warning like Joseph gets to tell them to turn left at the fork in the road instead of right, even the entire Egypt escape adventure would then have been totally unnecessary. Absurdly they actually even did get a dream warning later anyway…”And having been warned in a dream not to return to Herod, they withdrew to their country by another route”. What is going on here? Why not warn them to not go to Jerusalem in the first place, and so avoiding all those babies deaths? Dang you lost guiding star! next time use a dang darn compass I tell you!!!).
I should also note btw, that according to Jehovah’s Witness’ official doctrines they believe that the star was instead sent by the “satan” character because they claim their god simply wouldn’t allow and couldn’t be behind the lost star/magis/massacres snafu thing (I don’t know if this mental gymnastics theologizing also applies to the many OT god ordered killings, Joshua’s genocidal military campaigns and infanticides ordered by the god, the claimed worldwide flood adventure which kills almost everybody on the planet, the many times the biblical god smites and kills Israelites as well as their enemies back and forth etc), which just goes to show you how how these ancient superstitions and primitive beliefs, ideas and claims just keep mutating and mutating and with different things added and edited out and changed and then mutating some more within the mutation…according to however the cult or sect or guru sees fit to include in their particular alternate universe mind control theologies (more about them and about how the so-called “satan” character is really just an imported concept from Zoroastrianism and other Iron Age Levant religions that is NOT found anywhere in the earliest OT biblical text, and how the biblical satan character is actually really just the same biblical local tribal god character just under a different name, how at first he originated as a personality trait of his, and then only later still transformed (mutated) into a proper noun as a specific personal heavenly errand boy/lackey (aka gofer, before mutating again and given a kingdom and realms and the earth to rule, and then later still even miraculously turned into a garden snake who teleports backwards in time and completely duped his maker who had no clue etc), which is even admitted and proven by the biblical text and narrative itself, that can be read at my first post here).
*(Author’s note – I’m not implying I’m all-knowing or perfect and all omni this and omni that knowing everything everywhere before it even happens…and even before that, but If I was the god character in this story I would have warned the magi to not to go to Jerusalem and visit Herod and instead just direct them straight to Bethlehem (as in…”Pssst, Hey Magi guys down there, take that road on the left and don’t visit Herod, if you do he’ll get all in a ruffle and start slaughtering babies to nix any kingly competition which will make me look bad and unknowing, trust me I know what I’m talking about, oh and be sure to bring along some nifty fancy gifts while you’re at it, gold would be a good idea…happy trails magis!”), that way no innocent babies get killed for nothing and I would come across as a swell all-knowing super-duper smart great guy god and all that instead of a clueless unknowing jerk deity with no prediction foresight powers. But that’s just me and the way I personally roll, just saying).
Which brings us to the major problem which gives birth to numerous other problems and contradictions, including the 2 nativity stories conundrum discussed so far, that being that the so-called Matthew and Luke gospels novels are mainly separate written works, anonymous Greek written works, which largely plagiarize from the oldest first anonymous gospel novel called Mark, and then add and change information, characters and events to suit their purpose and for their particular audience. What is the so-called “Gospel Truth” anyway then?…Well it depends which gospel novel you read and believe, with so many errors, contradictions, and added and changed information between them then “Gospel Truth” has the same meaning as “Fiery Snow” or more correctly it actually has no meaning, that’s right, after reading this post you will realize that the term “Gospel Truth” is just pointless meaningless semantics chicanery (as well as an oxymoron), it’s really only just “Pretend Truth” in a person’s mind and imagination. Almost 95 percent of the content of Mark’s text appears in Matthew’s text and more than 50 percent of the Mark text is in the Luke text. However, if wrongly presented as being 3 independent witness sources as many televangelist preachers do, then why would the so-called Luke and Matthew anonymous authors largely plagiarize word for word from a book written by another unknown writer who never met any Jesus character, and never even lived in Palestine or during the time period in question, plagiarizing from a person who was not an eyewitness and not even remotely qualified to be writing any sort of witness books in the first place? Good question.
But more perplexing and problematic, why the heck start adding a whole bunch of different contradictory information including changing and reversing events, or more interesting to note why would the anonymously written Mark gospel leave such supposedly basic fundamental important information out of his book in the first place? (but he strangely mentions a young man fleeing naked during the arrest of Jesus because that’s more important to know probably than just resurrecting and floating to the cosmos?).
For instance Mark starts his story off after Jesus being given a bath by camels fur wearing John the locust eater, his Jesus is peculiar and very secretive and even unable to perform miracles at certain times, Mark does not include any information about any miraculous virgin birth or nativity scene or a super genius ‘tween Jesus who disobeys his parents and wows the elders in the temple, and there’s no insinuation or doctrine of any divine pre-existence either (strangely decades later the anonymous John gospel writer does a 180 degree turn and writes almost exclusively about and highlighting the pre-existent theology aspect), “Mark” doesn’t include an amazing walking on water scene or raising a dead Lazarus, in Mark he’s secretive always speaking in parables so much so that even his own disciples don’t understand what he’s talking about and the parables were meant only for them anyway and not anyone else (“Mark” also doesn’t go on to explain the secret meanings or the point of many of the parables), in “Mark” his disciples basically come across as bumbling, forgetful and obtuse lackeys most of the time and at the end as fleeing cowards (and soon disappearing from even the NT historical record completely, just vanished poof). (e.g. – after the feeding of the 5,000 with 5 loaves and 2 fish “miracle” story, not long afterwards the disciples are confounded and bewildered about how in the world they were going to feed 4,000 people with 7 loaves and 2 fishes, they’re greatly perturbed not sure what to do…but it’s basically the exact same bloody situation!, geez talk about short term memory and being obtuse as if just falling off a pumpkin wagon, they don’t even come across as real people but instead as clueless fake supporting actors behaving more like 12 stooges), unlike Matthew and Luke, Mark makes no attempt to amazingly trace Jesus’ ancestry back to King David, Abraham or Adam with a wowee genealogy such as the contradictory genealogies found in Luke and Matthew, in Mark he is simply just “a son of Mary” and Joseph is not even named.
Among many other problematic inconsistencies probably the most surprising is the ending of Mark, where the Jesus character basically is quickly sentenced by Pilate because of the Sanhedrin’s consensus and he doesn’t much complain or have any discussions or speeches at any trial, he soon dies fairly quickly after being abandoned, and in the original ending there are absolutely no post-resurrection appearances of any Jesus to anybody at anytime whatsoever and no words or promises spoken either (Waaa? No resurrection? you must be confused of course there was a resurrection that’s supposed to be the most important part of the whole book plot and the entire world history you imbecile, why would he leave out a resurrection and the teleporting and zombies if that’s the most important thing you lying heretic infidel storyteller”…but nope it’s actually not in there according to anonymous “Mark” so it probably wasn’t that important to know, not as important as that running naked guy because that there is some important information that the reader needs to know). How is it then that the later anonymously written “Luke” and “Matthew” novels (and “John” after them, the John scribe-author for his theological mind control propaganda even changes their 1 year missions into a 3 year mission and adding a new risen Lazarus zombie character and other things) reverse and change endings, events and other things and then add so much more events, information and contradictions after plagiarizing a huge chunk of text material from a guy writing in Greek who was NOT an eyewitness and who’s not even supposed to be in the loop? Good question again.
If you were writing a personal eyewitness account about someone or something wouldn’t you write from the very start about the way it was and the way you saw it in your own personal words? Would you even write a biography and quotes used about someone living in a city from 1920 and then just plagiarize 50% to 95% of some other person’s written work who wasn’t even alive at the time or living there or even see or witness anything? (Plus televangelists like to insist that the anonymously written “Mark” text was written around 70 CE, however today and for quite some time we know that is very unlikely and is only the hypothetically earliest date possible after the Roman destruction of the temple during their Siege of Jerusalem, many scholars are actually of the opinion based on studying the text material fragments that “Mark” (the Mark version known today) was probably written circa. 90-120 CE or most probably even later, and all the gospels probably as late as the 3rd century, circa 200 CE, because what they read like before that we don’t know because there’s no sources or fragments). Basically the only thing that can be gleaned from the text of the oldest first anonymously written “Mark” author story with any certainty is that the Jesus character was a man with human parents who was eventually sentenced to death with the Sanhedrin’s urging and then he soon died fairly quickly never being heard or seen again by anyone, with no later added text about walking through walls afterwards or zombifying floating to the clouds or a babbling in tongues party (hint-hint scamvangelists and your infernal verbal diarrhea) or any promised miracles and snake handling superpowers etc. Mark’s story simply ends with some scared women running from a tomb with some guy sitting inside and then saying nothing to anyone about anything and then close the curtains and put on the theatre lights basically, end of the movie folks and please remember to put your litter in the bin on the way out.
However, there’s even much more problematic issues regarding dates beyond what I mentioned above. Believe it or not even the Jesus mentioned in the Jewish Talmud has periods of living described from between 75 BCE to 134 CE, one Talmud account tells that Jesus the Nazarene was stoned and hanged to death by the Jews on the Eve of Passover as well as that Jesus is being punished by boiling in hot bubbling excrement (shit/dung) because he practiced magic and deceived and led Israel astray (Well there you go, he was a bad, bad, bad Jesus trying to lead astray Israel so now it’s the bubbling boiling shit pot punishment for him, he broke the laws of Moses which were given by god himself and so he rightfully suffered the consequences, and it’s written right there in the text). Whether you believe any of the biblical stories or not, either way you have to admit that the Jesus character in the narratives was ultimately put to death because he broke the laws of Moses, which were laws given by god. There are also accounts that have Jesus being crucified under Alexander Jannaeus (83 BCE) or in his 50s by Herod Agrippa I under the rule of Claudius Caesar (41–54 CE).
And many other facts that are interrelated with the topic which add much more problems, such as even the dates of the gospels novels themselves and the amount of different gospels that were circulating (and for how long?) since the earliest period of the later mutating so-called “Christian” religion. It’s a fact that the vast majority of people don’t even know or put any thought into exactly who, when, where or why the various text came into existence or even which audience the text was actually written and meant for, when they read the OT and NT text (unless you’re an ancient Israelite in ancient Canaan battling the Nephilim it isn’t even meant for you anyway). For instance all NT papyri examined have numerous scholars who give a more accurate date of the late 4th century, not 1st century as many wish, claim and would like people to believe. The book of Acts is dated based on the Gospels and church tradition which didn’t even exist yet at such an early time period (prognosis: interpolations and inserted text chicanery). Paul material is dated based on Acts. The earliest access to any Pauline texts that church tradition “claims” is around 150 CE having been found by Marcion, however evidences show that all of the later gospels fragments are post Emperor Antoninous Pius and Luke is probably as late as Emperor Commodus at the turn of the 3rd century CE. However most people are not aware there were numerous Gnostic and mystery religion themed “Gospels” already in the 1st century which were all considered the earliest so-called “Christian gospels” (about 90 gospels at least and many more letters, codexes, scrolls, books and text material, many, many cults and sects and each one claiming to be the truth), these and later adapted ideas from previous Platonic, Gnostic and Jewish Hellenistic philosophy and other older mystery religions characters, powers and concepts, ala Philo, Cerinthus, Zalmoxis, Zoroaster, Dionysus, Orpheus, Prometheus, Mithras and many others, which mutated multiple times in various ways through the later centuries of editing, additions, removals and censurings (ala the good ol’ Eusebius’ fabrications and many others) only then eventually leading to what can be generally considered the 1st bible only in the 4th century (although different bibles were also to be found including different gospels and letters, the 4th century Codex Vaticanus and later Codex Sinaiticus were both written in Greek and both are missing numerous text paragraphs and phrases that are found in today’s bible versions (Why? ask Benny Hinn…which obviously means they were “inserted” later by anonymous translators and scribes, by whom and when exactly? good question).
The Codex Vaticanus and Codex Sinaiticus are the 2 oldest bibles dated to the circa. mid-4th century, they also have books material that are different from each other, so today we have material they don’t have and they have material different from each other, and it’s material we don’t have in any version, on top of that today we have text material that neither of them had (and the same goes for many other texts from before that, many of which are vastly different, later deemed heretical by so-called “church fathers” gurus). Acts and the letters of the purported Paul character (and writers speaking/writing for already long dead Paul, aka pseudo-Paul and “Pauline” letters by scholars) are especially comprised of numerous contradictory “patchwork” letter fragments with much gnosticism and mystery religion beliefs and abstract esoteric concepts included, (even the character Paul is obviously a Gnostic according to many scholars because he never even speaks about an actual earthly life of any earthly physical Jesus character ever and he knows absolutely nothing about any earthly life, earthly birth, words or parables spoken, no disciples, miracles or any events that took place and he was even alive at the time…supposedly, he never even quotes any Jesus character not even once which is very strange (It would have come in handy if he would have reminded his audience “Remember when Jesus said this or did that thing….”, don’t you think so and wouldn’t that make sense and solidify his position to listeners/readers? Instead he obviously knows nothing about any earthly life of any Jesus character walking around and doing things on earth), Paul’s written letters instead revolve around a hazy blurry vague enigmatic “Christ” character in space somewhere who resurrected somewhere in the cosmos after being crucified by mutinous angels Archons somewhere in the nebulous ether layers of outer space (just like numerous other much older pagan religions superhero characters likewise resurrected themselves as saviors for their followers then giving eternal life to followers, because if you want lots of followers to be wowed your superhero simply has to resurrect from the dead basically, resurrecting saviors were popular fads already for centuries, it was a thing).
(At this point let me just stop and repeat one of the highlighted points above, but with some added context according to the presented written text narrative…PAUL PREACHED THAT PEOPLE SHOULD NOT BOTHER GETTING MARRIED, THINK ABOUT PLANNING A MARRIAGE OR EVEN THINK ABOUT HAVING KIDS…BECAUSE “WITHOUT A DOUBT” THE END OF THE WORLD WAS HAPPENING “WITHIN..HIS..LIFETIME” AND WAS PERHAPS JUST DAYS OR HOURS AWAY…AND STRANGELY ONLY AFTER A NUMBER OF DECADES AFTER PAUL AND THE SO-CALLED JERUSALEM SECT “CONTACTS” (“THE 12”) HAD ALL ALREADY DIED…ONLY THEN DID ANY SO-CALLED ANONYMOUS GOSPELS NOVELS EVEN START TO BE THOUGHT OF OR INVENTED, DEVISED AND FINALLY WRITTEN (and when you factor in the previous grass-roots Jewish apocalyptic movement of a competing John the baptizer sect from decades previously (another connected simultaneous total fail btw), Paul’s conflict and acrimony with the Jerusalem sect 12 politburo founding members (aka the 12 super-apostles) and especially the admittance by Paul of direct conflict with Peter, and James (the brother of the the Lord, real or figurative it’s not clearly defined and scholars lean more towards figurative sectarian brother because Paul knows nothing about any physical earthly Jesus life or earthly events) and his letters text material where even the Paul character himself writes that James and the Jerusalem 12 were “false brothers” and sending spies to keep tabs on his foreign travels preaching and dealings (almost like the Jim Bakker-Jerry Falwell PTL fight as an analogy), then the dark underworld conspiring events we read in the story take on an even more ill-omened wretched sinister aura, and where did all the intended for the Jerusalem sect donation gift of Paul’s many collected shekels funds suddenly disappear to anyway?, all those many collected shekels over the years suddenly disappeared without a trace just like the so-called Jerusalem super-apostles themselves suddenly disappeared and are not heard from anywhere in any historical record, it seems the shekels donations funds and the so-called apostles just poof vanish from history (just how many shekels from his many years of travelling and getting donations in foreign lands is unknown, perhaps a fortune, with the coins being donated in Roman empire coins currency and so after conversion meaning even many more shekels, surely a fortune of shekels)….however some biblical theorists have put forth evidences that the shekels treasure was either immediately safely buried but soon afterwards was stolen by the risen zombies who were previously seen by many and surely probably still alive in Jerusalem at the time…or that the shekels treasure was eventually used by later dispersed minions of the sect to employ foreign writers who were already familiar with the Homeric sagas, various mystery religions and already known ghost stories to dream up and gradually write various new “anonymous” hocus pocus magical superhero origins gospels novels for the sect, and in the process invent a new contradictory Paul character in the Acts narrative to whitewash the scandalous sectarian subterfuge). The reader can let those very odd facts sink in for a minute, because what we clearly see going on is just the same ol’ “damage control propaganda” modus operandi being devised and fabricated after the fact failure disaster of the cult, not unlike many other failed doomsday cults and sects before and later through the centuries and even up to today…ala Millerites, Bible Student movement, Jehovah’s Witnesses’ and other sects, gurus and scamvangelist groups floating around, but in retrospect and truthfully the main point is that the death knell of the entire Jerusalem-based dark underworld secret blood magic mind control doomsday death cult had then factually already happened almost 2,000 years ago, and so everything written and claimed afterwards by the various purveyors with diseased minds is just further added mutating fictions and a lot more abstract concepts and mental gymnastics fabulism.
Paul character during his purported “visions”, hallucinations and psychosis mental breaks from reality that he alludes to, instead mostly writes about mutinous ‘angelic’ or ‘daemonian’ beings and agencies who have kingdoms and reign over the earth and he calls them Archons who have thrones, kingdoms and powers in the “High Places” (among the various heavenly layers of the nebulous cosmos) and that they are the gods of the nations and the earth, and that these mutinous angels are the ones who executed the “Christ” character somewhere in the cosmos, he doesn’t even mention any Romans crucifying anyone or it even taking place on earth, instead it’s the cosmic angelic Archons who did it…in “outer space”…(sounds like a good DC and Marvel Universe movie plot, however some scholars are of the opinion that the most wise serpent in the Garden of Eden could in fact be one of these gods or mutinous angels who attempted to only free mankind from the nefarious vile cosmocrat and perpetual mind control servitude), and we know Paul’s text excerpts are actually from many unknown authors not just one (aka “Pauline letters”), later various characters were simply “inserted” into real historical times and places and names were only “applied” to the texts as being the authors (We have no clue who wrote it because they’re anonymous writers, including “patchwork” written material thrown in from different unknown sources), invented histories and events were then written up “inserting” Paul into the times and events of the so-called disciples narrative in the story (just like in the average fiction novel, or Prometheus, Orpheus, Perseus, Hercules etc), and inserted quite poorly as the numerous remaining contradictions and erroneous information clearly shows we are dealing with fiction, then slowly the phantasm was now becoming an actual real person who was born, spoke and lived in the real world who could do magic shows against demons, make fig trees die instantly and even make thousands of pigs jump off cliffs to drown (Fabricating people, places and events just as the Old Testament writers did for centuries before, and Muslim writers afterwards). Interestingly, evidences and even Christian tradition claims Arianism was the dominant religion at the time of the First Council of Nicaea in 325 CE before being mysteriously “outvoted” by some newly appeared theological politburo “claiming” divine right, yet Origen, Eusebius and even Emperor Constantine and his family were of the Arianism Christian faith, which still continued for over a century, Emperor Valens was also up to 378 CE.
The notion that the four “gospels that made the cut” to be included in the official New Testament were written by men named Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John does not go back to early Christian times. The titles “According to Matthew,” etc., were not added until late in the second century. Thus, although Papias ca. 140 CE (‘Common Era’) says he knows all the gospels but has only heard of Matthew and Mark (but being another supreme fabulist he also supposedly knows that Judas swelled up so large that he could not walk through narrow streets (just like the Kool-Aid Man), his eyes puffed swollen shut, his genitals enlarged and filled with pus and worms when he had to urinate and that death came to him “in his own land” which still stinks so badly that no one can pass through there without holding their nose even up to today, wow now that’s dang darn interesting…lol, Papias is also an important early source on Christian oral tradition and especially on the origins of the canonical gospels novels, so no made up rubbish or fiction there it’s super-true), Justin Martyr (ca. 150 CE) knows of none of the four supposed authors (he refers only to excerpts of what he calls “Memoirs of the Apostles”, which sound very similar to Xenophon’s “Memoirs of Socrates”. as he was very acquainted with Socratic tradition, Xenophon and Plato’s “Socratic Dialogues” this is hardly surprising).
It is only in 180 CE, with Irenæus of Lyons, that we are told who wrote the four “canonical” gospels and discover that there are exactly four of them because there are four quarters of the earth, four universal winds and because the so-called “Church Fathers” also identified the four gospel writers with the ridiculous absurd four living beings or beasts named in Revelation 4:6, 7; cf. Ezekiel 1:10—the lion was Mark, the ox was Luke, the flying eagle was John and the the creature with the face of a man was Matthew, this symbolic identification is made in both Christian literature and art through the centuries and is basically just more fabulist mutating hocus pocus inventions. Thus, unless one supposes the argument of Irenæus to be other than ridiculous, we come to the conclusion that the gospels are of unknown origin and authorship, and there is no good reason to suppose they are eyewitness accounts of a Jesus character. It could just as easily have been referring to the wonders of Dionysus turning water into wine, or to the healings of Asclepius etc.
Only in the late 4th century did the newly devised Nicene Creed start to slowly gain ground and become “official” for the unknowing peasants and masses…importantly enforced with state backing (actually it was at the first Council of Nicaea that all the oldest original very first Christianities ceased to exist [and there were quite a number of them floating around with various differences, concepts and beliefs and each one claiming to be the right way], and so a new monster was born so to speak, which would eventually and even already soon after did give birth to and beget further mutating monsters and “creations”), but not everywhere and many churches did not agree so it was then “enforced with state backing”, many times brutally. However what the many earliest texts from the 1st century included and what they exactly believed (i.e. – the actual very first so-called “Christians”, although we don’t really know what they even called themselves or their religion because of the numerous cults and sects to be found at the time) before being edited and/or reworked or outright burned in later centuries, we may perhaps never fully know, yet we do know enough that many of them clearly believed in a “phantasm” Jesus-ish character (who only received the name Jesus later after already dead interestingly), but that he wasn’t ever even literally born and that a battle of kingdoms took place in the cosmos not on earth. These are the earliest so-called “Christians” and Christian texts (or whatever they called themselves as that term is a much later construct, it’s a title not a name)…if they were alive to read today’s various bibles and watch televangelist shows they most assuredly would not even recognize what was being preached, the vast majority of the later added fables, doctrines, legends and characters and nonsense shticks, probably even that people were all crazy for believing such invented nonsense drivel. Inconvenient fact: evidence of early Christian communities is extremely scanty, the new appearing versions of Christian cults remained a small minority among many cults and religions until well after one particular faction formed a political alliance with the State, i.e. – Constantine. The following new theologies and especially the newly concocted Nicene Creed was very unpopular for centuries afterwards with many breakaway new churches, and so then persecution was necessary to impose its will, basically the former persecuted now became the new official state persecutors. (Laughably lots of people and especially televangelists even think that only the KJV bible is the true “god-approved” bible version, which would then mean it took the master of the universe only 1,600 years after the alleged narrative fables began to finally get a bunch of yokels, synods, votes, bannings, excommunications, editings, translations, new texts, fragments patchwork, reworkings, book burnings and many meetings to finally get it right and so “Christianity” is actually then really only 400 years old, but it’s still full of contradictions, errors absurdity and nonsense and so it’s not really that impressive actually. And people think “Fake News” is just a recent modern day phenomena?).
And even just the less well-known case of Marcion (among many, many cases of early 1st and 2nd century intrigue, debates, arguments, disagreements, censures and heresy excommunications), which is something probably many have absolutely no clue about because it’s been censored and hushed-up for many centuries (among many other things), it’s very interesting though even from just the historical perspective for history buffs even if not interested in any of the religious views or beliefs, interesting for a number of very intriguing and important reasons that would probably piss of many televangelists especially. (Get ready to be mind blown so you might want to sit down and make some snacks and adult beverages first, I recommend a Martini or maybe a Jager Bomb, you can even order a few gallons from Jim Bakker’s creamy potato soup bucket first if you want I don’t care)…
Because the early so-called “church father” Marcion was actually onto a good idea by finally being the very first person to decide to actually write things down in the late 1st to early 2nd century as a permanent record that people could actually read, (and according to his sources, which were the earliest known sources available at the time because the later 4 gospels weren’t even thought of to be written yet…Marcion wrote that Jesus started a completely brand new religion that wasn’t even connected to the Old Testament and its always jealous, complaining, repenting, genocidal, wrathful absurd infantile, malevolent, smiting, laws and regulations giving and sacrifices demanding Yahweh-Jehovah-God (aka “God” supposedly). Marcion instead denied Jesus’ actual physical and bodily birth, death, and resurrection altogether by explaining that according to his information and sources (again the oldest sources known up to then btw, and there were many other groups, churches and sects who likewise believed similar things at the time, we don’t really even know what the earliest first believers believed or why), Marcion insisted that Jesus was actually an incarnated phantom from somewhere beyond with an imitation material body, as in he wasn’t even born on earth but instead came down as a phantom and then just took on a bodily form, (a viewpoint also shared by a number of the early Christian groups btw, Marcion was just most singled out by competing so-called “Church Fathers” cults leaders because of his growing presence and popularity), but his writings pissed off some others who didn’t agree and who had their own ideas and agendas, so then they decided to write stuff down also to answer back as a retort which ironically eventually became the early New Testament, so you see Marcion actually started the whole idea of writing the New Testament thing, as in the very first New Testament gospels writings and because of this he’s even sometimes also called the Father of the New Testament. Marcion’s views were very similar in many aspects to the teachings of Cerinthus (50-100 CE) who likewise assured that Jesus was not supernaturally born of a virgin, but was just a mere man, the biological son of Mary and Joseph, and that the Christ (anointing) descended upon Jesus only at baptism but it abandoned him at the crucifixion and he then simply died, died just as thousands of others were crucified and died. Cerinthus claimed that he received angelic inspiration (“Holy Vision”?) assuring him that was the truth of events (and you can’t deny angelic holy visions sent by god can you?). Interestingly, there are even claims by groups already from those early centuries that Cerinthus was the actual true author of the Gospel of John and Book of Revelation, reason being because even today the Gospel of John in numerous obvious and contradictory ways can rightfully be regarded as the opposite of the other 3 gospels and it largely denigrates them. The John gospel novel can be correctly described even as an “Anti-Synoptic Gnostic Gospel” which adapted Philo’s description of the centuries older pagan philosophical “Logos” concept (first mentioned and written about by Heraclitus in circa. 535-475 BCE), because of the vast differences and because it was written considerably after the other 3 gospels and their sources/anonymous authors it can even more accurately and correctly be described and regarded as a truly Gnostic inspired “Gospel of Satan” or more accurately an “Anti-Synoptic Satanic Gospel”, although Gnosticism teachings and theological ideas are found in the Synoptic Gospels also but just not to the high degree of the later anonymous so-called John gospel texts (To put it colloquially, the authors of Mathew didn’t like what was in the written text of Mark and so added plenty of stuff and various new stories and various new concepts and meanings, then the writers of Luke didn’t like what was written in either of them all that much and so started adding lots more stuff and ideas and changing meanings, but then lastly the authors of John (yes “authors” because it repeatedly states “we”)…basically said “F**k all 3 of you you’re all wrong, I (we) have the real deal gossip rumours news scoops story and know what went down and I’m gonna write the real story” and so then wrote opposite things from all 3 of them and adding more different theological meanings, abstract concepts, new miracles and stories, with his new theologies and ideas he actually comes across sounding more like the “Paul” character than any of the other gospels-novels writers). However importantly not to be confused with the Lucifer/Luciferian “Light-Bringer/Bringer of Light” (because Lucifer is just the ancient Roman Latin name for the planet Venus) or associated with the plural “Elohim” Gods who created the world and everything in it, but rather more in line as the Hebrew Yahweh-Jehovah God’s “Diabolus-slanderer” character (the one that throws libelous claims at another, i.e. – Diabolus which became Devil) who is similar to the Satan Angel (i.e. – “a satan” or “the satan” that did or said such and such) much like the one that blocks and “accuses” Balaam while saving his talking donkey from being beaten to death, who himself even states that he came down to be a Satan to Balaam. However, since we know from Isaiah 45: 7 that the Hebrew Yahweh-Jehovah God is quoted saying “I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, AND I CREATE EVIL” which implies that God is the Devil (more accurately “the Diabolus-slanderer” and not the Elohim or Lucifer of course because the Hebrews never wrote in Latin or Greek) thus God is then denigrating the 3 Synoptic Gospels with the help of his anonymous authors/demons mainly because he is actually the Diabolus/Devil as per his own stated quote in the text and he cannot lie (Now I’m not saying I support Marcion or Marcionism or Cerenthus, Valentinus or Cerdo or any of the many similar earliest Christian teachers, sects and cults leaders or anybody or any belief or desert guru, I’m just saying that as far as we know history tells us that Marcion actually wrote/recorded the very first New Testament books and the very first known gospel from the earliest known sources, well before the later 4 gospels were started to be even thought of and written), and even more surprising probably to many is that Marcion’s gospel is literally the “very 1st Christian gospel ever written or known about…ever”, i.e. – No gospel is ever even mentioned by any of the so-called church fathers before the appearance of Marcion’s “gospel”. As in there wasn’t even any mentions of any gospels whatsoever written by anybody before Marcion did his writing because instead it was just lots of different fables, sources and different ideas and cults floating around, (well they’re all cults actually anyway), we know there were quite a number of different and competing so-called “gospels” in the early years and early 2nd century and each one different from each other in very important ways as well as each one claiming a direct linear connection to the character of Jesus and his inner disciples-clique or having no disciples (there are known to have been almost 100 different “Christian” groups and followers of a new “Jesus character based religion” but with very different teachings and beliefs from one another at that time in the Levant, but each one claiming to be the right and true way…pick a card…any card, talk amongst yourselves about that interesting one and the first official known Christian gospel before the later official 4 gospels inventions quandary).
What was Marcion’s actual ultimate crime? He publicly exposed the OT Yahweh-Jehovah tribal deity for being the malevolent moral monster it claimed to be and he emphasized Jesus too much! He was also hated for disagreeing with their interpretation of certain OT passages as being allegorical, to which Marcion replied was nothing more than a feeble attempt to disguise the primitive barbarities of their scriptures.
But soon afterwards Marcion was persecuted, got outvoted, called a heretic and then excommunicated by the newly appearing and growing Yahwehism-Jehovahism version church fathers politburo who usurped control (which was no surprise really, just as numerous sects already existed for centuries so heretics were all over the place also, and there was no defining what a real heretic was anyway because even the excommunicating cliques were being called heretics by the excommunicated heretics who felt they were right and the true church being persecuted), although there still were many Marcionite churches scattered around that taught his gospel for centuries afterwards before slowly disappearing and finally eliminated by the new consensus thought-police church fathers politburo, so his ideas are not some new Hollywood movie plot or recent New Age tin foil hat conspiracy movement, it was real and the very first Christian gospel and bible version recorded ipso facto. Many scholars even think that Luke was created by just adding anti-Marcionite passages to Marcion’s gospel, or that both Luke and Marcion’s gospel are edited versions of some other lost prior gospel, those who support this last view usually maintain that the Gospel of Marcion is then closer to the original than canonical Luke which was written later including fake Paul information, and we know this because of the remaining evidences of conversations and letters about Marcion that date from the time he lived). Excommunicating, censuring, banishing and condemning each other as heretics all over the place all the time, because they simply couldn’t agree on their versions of stories about the very basic fundamental beliefs “No this goes in, that has to go”…”No, it stays and you go because you are a blasphemy guru”….”No no no, it stays out and both of you are heretics and servants of Satan (who isn’t Lucifer (the ancient Roman name for the planet Venus) or the Devil (diabolus) because Hebrews never spoke or wrote Latin or Greek), but we’ll make some other things up first then have a vote, we will vote and add and take away, invent more and vote more until we have the “Word of God” etc and so on). They were having all kinds of councils, synods, votes, more councils and more banishments and more added fiction for the next council and meetings constantly and they still couldn’t agree, the snowball just kept growing bigger with more snow and even sand and pebbles in it. The most boring and dumb eternal arguments and votes ever. Did he or didn’t he exist and what was his name anyway?, was he a man, a demon or god or god-man or a phantasm? Just what the heck did he say anyway? Hey you there, do you guys or anybody there know what he said or did or if he existed? I think we need a big meeting and let’s have a vote! Hey you brother Copeland and Hinn verily tell us what he said (From the time he was claimed to have lived in the narrative novels and wowing and amazing many thousands with magical feats and even rising zombies afterwards, not even one writer, historian, philosopher, ruler, soldier, politician, rabbi or any person whatsoever made any mention of it, Philo of Alexandria the Hellenistic Jewish philosopher was even in Jerusalem for a while during the time period but seems to not be aware of anything unusual going on or noteworthy, it’s all just only…..crickets. Thankfully later plenty of pagan traditions and stuff was added, picking good important earlier pagan dates and customs for the holidays and celebrations, including ancient pagan Croatian customs such as the holiday trees, wreaths, painted eggs, mistletoe etc).
As for the findings and opinions of Marcion, many people today have come to the exact same conclusion just by reading the text, it’s that simple. For example according to Dan Barker who is a former Bible-Belt Pastor, and many, many, many scholars over the years and others, the OT god is correctly described as the most unpleasant character in all fiction; jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving, control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, ultra extreme ethnocentrist parochial, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully, pyromaniacal, angry, merciless, curse-hurling, vaccicidal, aborticidal, cannibalistic, slavemonger, homicidal, evil, and a terrorist, and it even admits it himself that he creates evil and more, see his website https://unpleasant.ffrf.org/ for easy to read proof with the bible verses people don’t like to admit exists which shows that the OT god is really no god at all but is more an absurd “local” primitive tribal moral monster. (Basically, all that modern day rigmarol about all-knowing, all-wise, all-loving, omni this, omni that etc, especially by telescamvangelists today, is just personal invented faith shekels seeds jimble jamble).
The book title of “Jesus from Outer Space: What the Earliest Christians Really Believed” may seem humorous at first or perhaps even outrageous to scamvangelists, but believe it or not it’s actually a very correct description of the views of the earliest Christians which is supported by the earliest written sources, 100% correct actually. Because even the older Jewish scripture world view has many examples of the same concepts, it was believed that the various angels, demons, Yahweh-Jehovah God’s throne and temple, (the “real outer space Jerusalem” and “real temple” not the imitation Earth ones, there were also mansions and castles and various creatures in “outer space” depending on which of the 7 layers of the outer space heavens you were at), the later Satan-Devil-Lucifer etc character, and that various battles and wars raged and were taking place somewhere “out there” in “outer space”, the whole Satan-Job-God’s bet thing mentioned earlier took place in the same “outer space” realm somewhere beyond the Moon in one of the “7 heavens” i.e. – the 7 heavenly layers in the literal physical “outer space”. When various Old Testament superhero characters appeared or disappeared or when prophets or people were snatched they didn’t beam up instantly or teleport into some other plane of existence or alternate tangent unseen spirit universe (like in a Bewitched episode), but instead they just floated up to somewhere “out there” up, up and away above the clouds to “outer space”, almost like a balloon or in a staged play being pulled up by strings and ropes by people behind the curtains (even planets and stars were represented beings in their astrotheology such as how the planet Venus represents the Devil-Satan-Lucifer at different times, as well as other earthly rulers such as the King of Babylon (Shining One/Morning Star/Light bearer etc) as well as representing the Jesus character also)…
…However, remaining written evidences clearly show that the earliest and oldest cults and sects of later so-called “Christians” (i.e. – the various many earliest apocalyptic Jewish cults and secret mystery religions adherents and gnostics that eventually mutated to become so-called “Christians” only much later), most of them never even believed in an actual physically born “Jesus” character, they instead believed he arrived from somewhere “out there” from “outer space” from a different god not related to the OT main skydaddy. Interestingly, even the Saul/Paul character who is the first writer about the topic and also the first writer in the NT and who takes up over half of it (that we have remaining textual evidence for anyway but it’s still only from the 3rd century anyway, so who the heck knows what any earlier original material (edited redacted material?) was comprised of), he never at any time even mentions anything ever about any phyisical Jesus actually being on earth or being born on Earth, or born by Mary or even born by any earthly mother, or performing any miracles or magic, having a ministry, raising zombies, curing lepers and the blind from demons etc or even actually being crucified on earth by anyone. In a way his supposed writings are actually more in line with Marcion and other gnostic mystery religions types gurus/writers who likewise believed Jesus was not born as an actual physical man on Earth but instead was a descending “phantasm” that “came down” from “out there” in “outer space” (SPACE, SPAce, SPace, space, space…)…
Anyway, that’s as far as I’ll go in this post regarding the nativities stories, there’s more problematic issues and contradictions involved as well as parallels with older pagan religions stories and legends, and cases of mistranslating and changing meanings of appropriated text excerpts, but I think even these few highlighted points suffice to prove my position. Historical inaccuracies, hocus pocus, contradictions and red flags all over the place which clearly indicate and prove that we are dealing with anonymously written personal fictions.
And it’s really not surprising, remember humanoids over thousands of years have become very good at telling various stories, many of them are even very complicated and full of various concepts and ideas, and some are badly thought out and primitive and absurd invented stories and cosmologies, some stories go off in this direction and others go off in that direction depending on the agenda of the author/storyteller, some mutate and syncretize with other stories and become a new story, or even new stories again going off in different directions and diffusing and mutating again. Storytellers and fables makers from the Bronze and Iron Age, from the ancient Romans and Greeks, from ancient Egyptians, from ancient Mesopotamia, from the Sumerians, Babylonians, Akkadians, Phoenicians, Hebrews, Canaanites, Persians, Zoroastrianism etc and so on (and lots of old and even older stories and legends from the ancient Chinese, Indians, Japanese etc also, lots of people forget that and that the world is actually much larger than just the Middle East or just ancient Canaan, a whole lot larger actually). Heck I’ll bet cavepeople during the Ice Age and Stone Age 40,000 years ago were without a doubt telling various stories around the fire in their caves and huts when not painting and drawing art on the walls or eating bbq mammoth steaks. Humanoids tell stories basically.
At my very first post “National Security Alert: Foreign Televangelists, Cults, Sects“ I touch upon a cornucopia of problematic issues, contradictions and wrong information throughout both the Old Testament and New Testament texts, as well as a bunch of related facts and historical information that’s good to know. And all 3 Abrahamic religions (and all their many offshoots) are directly affected, I’m actually not singling out any of them because they all come from the same original sources anyway, from the same geographically coterminous cultures and their primitive behaviorisms, from the same cultural and religious milieus, diffusions and syncretisms. Even just the very existence of all 3 Abrahamic religions (and all their mutations and offshoots) is proof and further evidence that none of them are what they claim and pretend to be. If someone doubts that statement, then in the Middle East just what is it that Christianity actually ushered in? Well, from the after the fact state of things for centuries it helped give birth to another monstrous Abrahamic mutations creation and repulsive faith system known as Mohamudanism and Islam, that’s the facts, the repugnant Islamic Abrahamic world of grotesqueries and make-believe is predominant across the Levant and Middle East primarily because of the following further inventions and mutations from the Christianities that existed before it, ipso facto.
And interesting to remind also, all the scholars, skeptics, mythicists and people who study and investigate these topics, none of them really have to go far and search far and wide to support their evidences, views and opinions (or make up evidences and proofs for their findings and claims either), because the actual written texts is their evidences and proofs basically, the texts contradictions and errors were already written out for them so they don’t have to make things up and do mental gymnastics and personal ad hoc rationalizations to explain anything (as well as the problematic “argument from silence” and “absence of evidence” which again is another proof in the mythicists camp and really is big problems for historicists), because the various physical, archaeological, scientific and contemporaneous non-biblical written material evidences are just further supplementary bonus material in the mythicist’s corner which give them more weight behind their conclusions and findings, i. e. – it’s the examined and found problematic issues and contradictions in the Abrahamic texts written material themselves which give a lot of the mythicists, scholars and sceptics their evidences in the first place (and you sure can’t blame the mythicists for their conclusions, textual evidences and findings because they’re not the ones who wrote it making the various claims in the first place).
For more very easy to understand related information see also;